CONPET Portal’s editorial staff

Brazil’s future in the power efficiency field

CONPET’s Executive Secretary and Petrobras’ Gas and Energy Director, Mr. Ildo Sauer (photo), granted an exclusive interview to CONPET Portal to talk about the Program and the new challenges in the horizon for rationalizing the use of power and making

CONPET Portal’s editorial staff
14/11/2005

CONPET Portal: During the last two years, under your management as Program Secretary-Executive, CONPET started to receive a differentiated and exemplary treatment, remaking and improving its communications, expanding its institutional partnerships and opening its first regional office in the City of São Paulo. Is this a demonstration that CONPET intends on getting closer to society?

Ildo Sauer: The reformulation of CONPET’s actions and making them more dynamic are initiatives by Petrobras in cooperation with the Federal Government, through the Ministry of Mines and Energy and its Energy Development Management. The significant continuity of the Save it, Transport and Stoves and Gas-Powered Heaters Labeling Programs, the opening of an office in São Paulo, the intensification of the communication vehicles and mechanisms are important actions. The CONPET Portal and the media release means enable the Program’s achievements to be propagated to a greater number of users in society.

CONPET Portal: How did the Federal Government evaluate CONPET’s results?

Sauer: In a certain way, the Federal Government, through Mr. Paulo Leonelli, the director responsible for its oversight, has made an extremely positive evaluation in relation to the results obtained. Recently, we convened the CONPET Consulting Committee, which has the objective to consult with university and company specialists, actors of the energy efficiency, about the new paths to be explored. Thus, the joint efforts between CONPET’s management at Petrobras and the Ministry of Mines and Energy have had a very constructive synergy.

CONPET Portal: We are also able to notice that under your manager there has been a substantial improvement of CONPET’s image in relation to its integration with the Ministry of Mines and Energy (MME), and this has been pointed out by the officer in charge of the Program at the MME, Mr. Paulo Leonelli. In practice, what is the meaning of the joint efforts between the MME and Petrobras for CONPET?

Sauer: CONPET’s mission is of the public interest, which Petrobras carries out on behalf of the Federal Government and, in particular, on behalf of the Ministry of Mines and Energy. It is essential to give this recognition, given that CONPET’s and Procel’s actions [Procel is the National Power Conservation Program], organized at the MME by the Energy Development Executive Committee, must be permanent actions.

CONPET Portal: What are the main obstacles in developing rationalization and power and oil derivatives consumption efficiency actions in a country of continental proportions such as Brazil, and with such distinct regions under the economic perspective?

Sauer: The energy efficiency, generally in the area of oil and natural gas derivatives, and electricity, suffer a set of barriers that relate with the actual nature of the action and conservation. To produce additional volumes of power are the regular type of action carried out by corporate groups interested in economic results to set up new power producing areas. These actions involve banks that finance them along with construction engineering companies. There is a limited number of actors in this segment. When the objective is to obtain consumption reductions, the difficulty relates to the geographic amplitude and the number of actors involved, which include every Brazilian citizen, every consumer, and every household in the country. Therefore, if we were just talking about actors limited to few institutions, we are now talking about millions, whose positive attitudes is fundamental for success. It is evident that there are factors and sectors whose immediate action has an even greater result. They are, for example, freight carriers. CONPET had to seek out cooperative actions with the National Transportation Confederation (CNT) and with the Transportation Federations, obtaining an enormously positive result through the Save it Program and now it is also seeking to implement a similar action with the National Automotive Vehicle Manufacturers Association (ANFAVEA) -, environmental agencies and the Brazilian Department of Weighs and Measures (INMETRO) for the labeling of lightweight vehicles. Now the Transport Program, connected with the fuel carriers in certain refineries, must be expanded. The biggest challenge is to make a positive fix, seeking the convergence of all productive chains that involves a more intense use of energy, new technologies, user awareness, availability of professionals capable of having a relevant effect in this action. The challenge is not to develop new technologies but rather to create financial incentives that can be used in the change of attitudes and in the dissemination of knowledge so that the group of millions of users involved is benefited from the action, changing the consumption standards.

CONPET Portal: The “CONPET at School” Project has already benefited 3.8 thousand schools in 350 cities. What is the target for 2005? How does the CONPET at School Project intend on expanding its actions?

Sauer: CONPET at School is like a seed that, while it germinates and produces medium and long term results, it also allows for immediate results, since the positive attitude demonstrated by teachers and high school students immediately spreads this knowledge to children’s households, to the cities and to the communities. And above all, CONPET at School’s action is the construction of a future less harsh in energy and environmental terms for the country. The significant action to expand CONPET’s interaction at Schools, which until recently had been directed for the State of Rio de Janeiro, which be expanded into other regions of the country.

CONPET Portal: The National Stoves and Gas Heaters Labeling Program can generate savings of 1.5 million cubic meters of LPG, the so-called cooking gas, which is equivalent to 150 days of imports of the product. How is it possible to convince people to choose to buy the more economic instead of the cheaper option?

Sauer: This is a contradiction that speaks about one of the main barriers in relation to the energy efficiency: users’ awareness, their discernment capacity, even when information is readily available, like they are in the present day, when there is a label that comparatively indicates the performance of each stove or heater. The matter is that a country like Brazil, the initial cost for consumers, without an adequate financing system, often forces the consumer himself to makes opt for a product that seems to produce the least investment impact, when in reality the cost of operating inefficient equipment is a lot greater for the consumer, with more fuel expenses. And, many times, the consumption of gas pays off the difference in the initial investment for purchasing the equipment in just a few months. There is an important issue that CONPET at school, the informative media programs progressively make all users in the society aware of this and given an opportunity to analyze these issues. The creation of awareness throughout the productive chain – users, manufactures and retailers – has another direct benefit, the establishment of competition between equipment manufactures, aware that their products have a better performance.

CONPET Portal: What is needed to implement a vehicle labeling program, for example, to make CONPET directly reach millions of consumers also in this sector?

Sauer: CONPET’s actions have demonstrated to be adequate to those that were established in cooperation between the Federal Government, Petrobras and all members of the productive and consumption chain involved. This was the case with the Save it, Transport, and Stoves and Gas-Powered Heaters Labeling Programs. The labeling of vehicles will only be a success with the effective involvement of vehicle manufacturers, licensing agencies, environmental agencies, Petrobras, Inmetro and the Federal Government. This action is in progress and we believe that it can be a success. And great part of the vehicle performance test actions, necessary for the labeling to be implemented, are already being systematically carried out due to vehicles’ environmental and safety licensing. All there is left to do is translate the results into adequate information, in a cooperative manner, like it has been done in other countries for the program’s success. Above all, there is great need to retain partnerships with all actors, in special automotive vehicle manufacturers, who will be able to see a more positive action for all in this action.

CONPET Portal: How do you evaluate Brazil’s position in the energy development ranking among emerging countries? What can be done to improve the Brazilian energy performance?

Sauer: These classifications in the ranking are dependent upon the criteria used and the analysis possibilities. One of these classifications, published by the International Energy Agency, places Brazil on the 26th place amongst a group of 75 countries. There are other classifications such as, for example, published by Yale University in the area of energy and sustainability, placing Brazil within the 10 first in the whole world, not only among developing nations but also among developed nations. But the most important is not the position we are in at the moment but rather the potential for improvement that a country like Brazil has.

CONPET Portal: What are the current institutional efforts to include in the Energy Efficiency Law sources of energy derived from oil and natural gas? What practical results would originate from this inclusion to improve CONPET’s actions?

Sauer: Energy Efficiency Law, which was initially proposed exclusively for the electricity sector during a debate at the National Congress, was expanded into all segments that use and produce energy. It was an extremely important initiative that progressively regulated the minimum standards allowed by Law was also due to the presence of continuously better equipment and more efficient access to information by users. Thus, what we have already put on the way in CONPET’s area with the Stoves and Gas-Powered Heaters Labeling Program and the program that is being developed for lightweight vehicles fits perfectly within the spirit of the Energy Efficiency Law. In the meanwhile, with voluntary initiatives, but progressively demanding minimum efficiency standards in line with the instruments available within the Law, it can act as an additional public policy action capable of intensifying the success of Procel’s and CONPET’s programs implemented until the present date.

CONPET Portal: With the signing of the Kyoto Protocol, and its consequent coming into effect, what can we expect from Brazil within the next few years in relation to the positive results in decreasing emissions of pollutants?

Sauer: Brazil, strictly speaking of the area of energy, has sat on an extremely favorable position given its renewable energy and electricity production capacity: 90% or more of the power is produced by hydroelectric power plants; sugar cane, in which the bagasse [Bagasse is the matted cellulose fiber residue from sugar cane that has been processed in a sugar mill] is used for power and heat cogeneration; alcohol, an energy matrix that has been present for more than a ¼ century; the Biodiesel Program, a new program in which Petrobras has a significant participation; wind energy; small hydroelectric centrals; and the rational power, oil and natural gas byproduct use programs, respectively, Procel and CONPET, are all actions that place Brazil in a prominent position in relation to the targets of the Kyoto Protocol. Even though it is not a member of the group of countries that undertook a minimum commitment in the Protocol, Brazil has these two programs that must be looked at as Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) opportunities – and benefited into carbon credits, enabling these public policy actions to transform themselves into additional points of resources for intensification in the future.

CONPET Portal: And does CONPET have plans to develop projects that can be negotiated as carbon credits? Can we also expect this for 2005?

Sauer: Petrobras, in its restructuring of the Gas and Energy segment, which acts as CONPET’s Executive Body, created a Sustainable Energy Development Businesses Management Committee specifically within the Energy Development Management Committee, whose main objective is to evaluate opportunities resulting from energy efficiency and renewable energy actions within Petrobras’ system and, in cooperation with external agents, the possibilities resulting from power efficiency actions directly promoted by Procel in society. This is an ongoing effort, whose actions are soon likely to appear. Maybe in 2005, maybe a little later. CONPET Portal: During the Consulting Committee meeting held last December, it was discussed that CONPET and Procel should have joint actions. What would these actions be? And, is there any expectation for implementing such actions?

Sauer: There are basically two fields that require a clear joint action between CONPET and Procel: one, in the media, with communication actions related to energy efficiency for the population; and another, in education, with CONPET and Procel at School, which has everything for them to join their efforts and thus seeking to create synergy, with the joint allocation of resources and amplification of results. The basic message that touches students is the attitude of understanding about the use of limited natural resources and its rationalization, which will have a positive economic impact and a lower environmental impact.

CONPET Portal: Should the companies that sell power in Brazil be participating in the Consulting Committee, suggesting actions targeting energy efficiency?

Sauer: The Consulting Committee was initially proposed to be formed by a group of specialists in energy efficiency able to make a critical evaluation of the CONPET’s result report. The next step is to make these professionals’ experience enable the formulation of new programs, correct the current programs and intensify others. The plan is to allow all relevant agents in the productive and consumption chain in Brazil to be present and adequately represented in the Consulting Committee. This way, in the next meetings, it may be expanded, including new specialists of technology production and energy resource companies.